Page 2 of
2 INTERVIEW The voice of the Bali blast
speaks Abu Bakar
Ba'asyir Interview by Philip Smucker
bombing because just by doing that
- preaching the truth - I am being called all
kinds of things. There was even an attempt to take
me to Guantanamo, [Cuba] but fortunately I was
saved by Allah.
ATol: You
call the Bali bombers counter-terrorists, but some
would argue that by calling them
counter-terrorists, you are
encouraging them to engage in
this activity.
Ba'asyir:
What I was saying before is that what they were
intending to do was right. However, the method was
wrong, they were bombing a safe place, so the
point here is how you do it as well - the method
you use.
ATol: Don't you
think you are encouraging more young men to bomb?
Ba'asyir: They are not
terrorists, they are not instigating terror, that
is not their intention. They want to fight terror.
I don't think that by saying this that it will
encourage them. Only the method is wrong. But it
is not right to call them terrorists. Theirs is a
reaction, not an action.
ATol: Many people think that
students who have attended your school here have
taken their inspiration from Osama bin Laden. Can
you tell me what kind of an influence he has been
on students in your school and on young people in
Indonesia?
Ba'asyir:
Generally, the influence of [bin Laden] is good.
His intention to fight the US is good. However,
the methods and steps that he uses are not
necessarily to be applied here in Indonesia. You
have to take heed of the situation, but generally
speaking it is good.
Again, the steps he
uses in other countries are not necessarily
applicable here. Some young Muslims here clearly
idolize him and others would not. There are also
students who have quit the school, my school,
because they would not necessarily agree with his
teachings.
ATol: Do you
think [bin Laden] is a positive inspiration on
young people in Islamic world in general?
Ba'asyir: Generally it is
positive. What he is trying to teach, to pass on,
is jihad against the US. He opposes US terrorism
against countries. Jihad can be done through arms
and can be done through words as I'm doing now -
as preaching.
ATol: Has the
US military's failure to catch bin Laden made him
even more of a hero in the Islamic world?
Ba'asyir: As long as his
intent is to uphold Islam, God willing he will
always be safe and saved by God. You can start to
see the effects now. Western power is weakening
and, on the other hand, Osama has linked up with
the Taliban and others and is gaining power. I
always believe that in the end Islam will have
victory. Whoever is trying to block or fight Islam
will eventually lose. Therefore all the sacrifices
will bear fruit.
ATol: What
are the tools you use to fight back against George
W Bush's "war on terror"?
Ba'asyir: For Islam, the
truth is Islam. There were many prophets but
Mohammed was the last and he trumps the others. We
spread the truth, or dakwa, orally, over
the radio and Internet; through all kinds of
technical tools.
ATol: Do
you think the US is getting the message that [in
regards to Iraq] it may be inspiring more
terrorists than it can possibly kill?
Ba'asyir: I'm sure that many
Americans understand they are losing the battle in
Iraq. We can see - at least domestically - that
there is more pressure against the war. And there
is no doubt that the US is failing and losing in
Iraq and Afghanistan.
However, President
Bush is a very stubborn man. He is very extremist.
But this is also one of God's ways of destroying
his entire crusade. Allah is letting him be
stubborn, be himself and, in doing so, he creates
all this mess and therefore eventually it will end
in defeat.
ATol: So, you
think it is a message from God but that Bush
doesn't understand the message?
Ba'asyir: I have written a
letter to Bush saying he should not use God's name
to destroy Islam. The only way that Bush can
survive is for him to do what is being ordered by
God which is to believe in Islam, to convert to
Islam. If he wants to be safe he should take up
Islam.
ATol: Do you think it
is possible for the US to change foreign policy
and to live in peace with Islam?
Ba'asyir: In Islam, you
cannot force someone to convert to Islam. But what
is fair and just is Islamic law. It is quite
possible to have peace with the US, but the US has
to distance itself from Israel or decide not be
used as a tool by the Zionists. But peace is the
objective of Islam - to live in peace.
Philip Smucker is a commentator
and journalist based in South Asia and the Middle
East. He is the author of Al-Qaeda's Great
Escape: The Military and the Media on Terror's
Trail (2004).
(Copyright 2007 Asia
Times Online Ltd. All rights reserved. Please
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