Page 2 of 2 ATOL SPECIAL REPORT War and peace: A Taliban view
By Syed Saleem Shahzad
"But no pictures of you are available. Tayyab's pictures and video footage are
available in abundance, especially in the Western media as after 9/11 he
delivered dozens of media conferences in Kandahar as the Taliban's
spokesperson," I argue.
Abdullah smiles, "While he was in Iran he made a significant change to his
appearance. He is completely different from how he appeared in the video
footage. He is completely unidentifiable."
"Now you are telling me that Mullah Omar's secretary was in Iran. Did he live
there in hiding or was he given shelter by the Iranian government?"
"He was given refuge by the Iranian government in 2002, he lived
there for about a year. Even in the past years he has visited Iran
occasionally."
"Why did he not go to Pakistan?"
"He feared being arrested because he was close to al-Qaeda."
We fall silent for a while as we enjoy our dinner.
"Do you appreciate that al-Qaeda and the Punjabis carried out attacks on
Pakistan's security forces after the arrest of Mullah Baradar?" I ask.
"Saleem! You need to understand that Pakistan arrested Mullah Baradar under
compulsion and we have a compulsion as well, that no matter how Pakistan jacks
up its actions against us we cannot sanction attacks on Pakistan, or for that
matter against any Muslim country. Mullah Omar has many times ordered these
people who call themselves the Pakistani Taliban [Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan] or
al-Qaeda to stop the attacks in Pakistan and make their focus fighting against
NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization in Afghanistan], but these people
don't listen," Abdullah says.
"But don't you think that such attacks put pressure on the Pakistani military
apparatus and force them to stay neutral?"
"I will put the situation in a different way. Suppose from tomorrow we made our
entire focus to attack the Karzai administration and gave up our resistance
against foreign troops. What would you think of us? Would the Muslim world
consider us a legitimate resistance? These Punjabis and al-Qaeda are obsessed
with targeting the Pakistani security forces and their contribution to fighting
against NATO is limited."
"But there are several big Punjabi commanders, like Ilyas Kashmiri, in the
al-Qaeda camp. Do you question their wisdom as well?"
"There is a weird situation in North Waziristan [tribal area in Pakistan]. If
you spend just 20 days there you will talk the way they talk and you will start
declaring certain Muslims as heretic and issue decrees of murder and
assassination. This is not the Islamic way. The Taliban cannot accept that."
"They have pledged their allegiance to Mullah Omar, even Osama bin Laden and
[his deputy] Ayman al-Zawahiri have, then why don't they listen to you?" I ask.
"Neither Osama bin Laden nor Ayman are on the surface. The only person who
seems to be in command is Sheikh Saeed [alias Abu Mustafa al-Yazid], but people
under him do not listen to him. Al-Qaeda is not a very disciplined body. Unlike
the Taliban, where Mullah Omar's order is followed by all, in al-Qaeda and
among Punjabis everybody has their own policies. Now in defiance of Mullah Omar
they have started taking the baith [pledge of allegiance] to different
people. We are not in a position to constantly stay in touch with them and talk
to them on all those affairs," Abdullah says.
I switch topics. "Do you think the conflict in Afghanistan will just go on, and
that there is no point in talks?"
The Taliban leader looks into my eyes for a while before answering.
"This all comes from real intentions. They want our defeat, not reconciliation.
This talks issue is not a new one. The Taliban talked to the Americans, the
Saudis and to the Pakistanis even before 9/11. The Taliban wanted to avoid the
war [on Afghanistan in 2001] but we felt that the Americans were bent on a war
and wanted to dislodge the Taliban government, and they were looking for some
excuse.
"They made an issue of Osama bin Laden's presence in Afghanistan and tightened
the noose around the Taliban government. We said that Osama bin Laden was just
an individual. For argument's sake, say that tomorrow he died. Would the
Taliban government then be acceptable to you? The Americans responded with
other issues, women's rights and human rights in Afghanistan, as well as
education.
"We replied, 'OK, we will work on mechanisms under which we will take steps for
women's education and the improvement of human rights.' What then? The
Americans raised another issue, about holding elections. At this point we
realized the Americans were only concerned about waging war on Afghanistan for
whatever reason. Had 9/11 not happened, they would have found any old excuse to
wage war," says Abdullah.
He continues, "Even now, if you go through all their arguments concerning talks
with the Taliban, their bottom line is 'surrender arms first and then sit at
the table for talks'. This is a non-starter. It does not show any serious
American intention of talks. Why should we surrender? Recently, they attacked
Marjah [in Helmand province in Afghanistan], but within days the Taliban took
back control of some areas of Marjah and Nad-e-Ali. There is no intention on
their part to initiate talks, so there is no reason for us to start [talks]."
"Not even through Pakistan?"
"If you mean [President] Asif [Ali] Zardari's government. It is impossible that
we would talk to it."
"What if the army offers dialogue?"
"So far we have not received any signal that the army wants any dialogue with
the Taliban."
I add my observation, "What I gather is that Washington aims through Pakistan
to arrest top Taliban leaders and commanders, isolate Mullah Omar and then
either force the commanders to change their path or create a situation for
Mullah Omar to sit down for talks."
"Those who hatched this plan do not understand the Taliban or Mullah Omar.
Whoever among the Taliban is arrested becomes zero. No Talib would listen to
his [a captured person's] advice. You know Mullah Omar only interacts with a
very few select people. In the last eight years he has not seen his wife or his
children or any relative, except if they happen to be a Taliban commander and
he meets them in that capacity.
"Once he asked Mullah Baradar to meet him, but Baradar replied that he operated
in the field and might one day be arrested, and that would compromise Mullah
Omar's position. Remember, nobody can isolate Mullah Omar. Everything in the
Taliban starts and ends with Mullah Omar's orders," Abdullah says.
This ends the interview of several hours. I am dropped off on the outskirts of
Karachi, left alone at the roadside as the car speeds off into the night to an
unknown destination.
Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can
be reached at saleem_shahzad2002@yahoo.com
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