Page 3 of 3 The Sadr movement 'will eventually
triumph'
its local
servants. Sayed Muqtada al-Sadr is fighting for
the rights of all Iraqis, and the majority of
Iraqis, including Sunnis, recognize that.
MA: So you are claiming that
once the Americans pull out, responsible leaders
on both sides will come forward and reach
agreement?
MK: Yes!
MA: But what about the
people in government? Some of them
have
large militias; don't you think they will fight
hard to maintain their privileges?
MK: We are talking about
individuals. They don't have any following, and
their armed groups will collapse. They will depart
the scene quickly lest they incur the wrath of the
Iraqi people.
MA: What about
the foreign component of the terrorist campaign? I
am referring to the so-called jihadi Salafis and
the takfiris; what are you going to do with
them?
MK: These people took
advantage of the American occupation of Iraq.
Their propaganda rests on the claim that they are
in Iraq to fight the Americans. Once the Americans
leave, their support bases in Iraq will evaporate
overnight. I don't think these people will give
the Iraqis too much trouble. In any case, the
Iraqis have the capability to deal with them in a
quick and decisive manner.
MA: Let's talk about the
Mehdi Army now. What is the primary role of the
Jaish al-Mehdi?
MK: Its
primary role is a social and charitable one. Iraq
currently lacks proper institutions. Even during
Saddam's reign the only effective institution in
Iraq was the army. Of course that was disbanded
after the invasion, so right now we have no
national institutions to speak of. There is a huge
vacuum, and the Jaish al-Mehdi is filling it with
its socio-economic, educational and charitable
activities. They also provide security for
vulnerable communities, especially in Baghdad.
MA: Is the Mehdi Army
attacking coalition forces?
MK: Their policy has been to
engage with the government in order to coax it
away from the occupation and its infrastructures.
Therefore, they are not involved in military
operations, as that would compromise their
position inside the government. But recently they
withdrew from the Parliament for several months
and urged the government to pressure the Americans
into declaring a timetable for their withdrawal.
MA: So if the Mehdi Army is
not confronting the occupation militarily, which
group on the Shi'ite side is?
MK: The people involved in
the resistance do not usually disclose their
identity. So I can't really answer your question.
But as far as the Mehdi Army is concerned, they
are not fighting the occupation militarily.
MA: Is the Jaish Al-Mehdi
subject to strong discipline?
MK: It is disciplined at the
higher levels. But there are many groups and
elements that have attached themselves to the
Mehdi Army, and it is very difficult to control
their activities. They may undertake activities
which would not meet the approval of the
commanders of the Mehdi Army.
MA: How large is the Mehdi
Army?
MK: I don't know the
exact figure. But there are millions of people
throughout Iraq who are ready to accept orders
from Sayed Muqtada al-Sadr.
MA: But how large is its
core? Are we talking of 10,000-20,000 people?
MK: As I said, I don't have
exact figures, but I believe it is larger than
that.
MA: You mentioned the
problems associated with size and how different
groups are attaching themselves to the Mehdi Army.
There are also reports of splinter groups
operating under the Mehdi Army umbrella. Are these
reports accurate?
MK: I
would not say there are large splinter groups. But
there are small, roguish groups and individuals
operating under the umbrella of the Jaish
al-Mehdi. However, the Mehdi Army cannot be held
responsible for their actions. There are also
charismatic leaders within the Mehdi Army who also
have links to other groups. But these people, by
and large, are loyal to Sayed Muqtada al-Sadr and
would not disobey his orders.
MA: Many Sunnis and some
Americans allege that the Mehdi Army is behind the
death squads; what do you say?
MK: This is completely
untrue! This is American propaganda that is pushed
by people who do not wish the Iraqi people well.
The Mehdi Army is composed of people who love all
of Iraq and do not discriminate against their
countrymen on the basis of religion, sect or
culture.
MA: So who is
responsible for the death squads?
MK: The Americans are either
directly or indirectly responsible for the
massacres. By creating conflict situations, they
inflame passions on both sides and sour relations
between Iraqis. The occupation is the source of
all the violence in Iraq. Once the occupation
begins to wind down, the conflict will ease
accordingly.
MA: What about
the recent arrest of Deputy Health Minister Hakim
al-Zamili, and the accusation that the Sadrist
movement is using hospitals as a cover for
conducting sectarian warfare?
MK: It is propaganda, pure
and simple. They spread these lies because the
Sadrist movement is too popular and the Americans
can't accept this. In every section of Iraqi
society, the Mehdi Army and the Sadrist movement
[are] growing in strength and popularity, and the
Americans just don't know how to handle this.
MA: What about your rivals
in the Sunni community? They are making
accusations as well.
MK:
Some of them have made the drastic mistake of
falling for American propaganda. But if they cast
their minds back, they should remember that the
Mehdi Army stood with the Sunnis during the siege
of Fallujah. This is the same Mehdi Army. The only
thing that has changed is that this army has grown
in strength and popularity.
MA: What are the likely
political implications of the surge?
MK: If this operation does
not succeed - and I expect it will not succeed -
at the very least the Maliki government will
collapse.
MA: Will the
Americans then get rid of the democratic process
and establish a military dictatorship led by a few
generals, as some people in Washington are
advising? And will this be the beginning of the
end of the occupation?
MK: I
don't think the Americans have a coherent plan.
Just look at this latest operation. The [George W]
Bush administration has ignored all the advice
given to it and launched a new round of aggression
against the Iraqi people. Maybe Bush will fight in
Iraq until the end of his presidency in January
2009. The next administration will then start the
process of withdrawal.
MA:
How will all this affect the Sadrist movement?
MK: I am 100% sure that the
Sadrist movement will emerge stronger. They have
faced more daunting challenges in the past and
come out stronger. The situation will go from bad
to worse in Iraq until the Americans decide they
have had enough and pull out. I expect we will
reach that moment in early 2009. From now until
then, the situation in Iraq will just steadily
deteriorate. Many more innocent Iraqis will die.
MA: How do you see the
future role of Muqtada al-Sadr? Can he ever become
a national Iraqi leader?
MK:
He can, but he is not power-hungry. He is very
clever and exceptionally charismatic. He is a
natural leader and I am sure he will fulfill his
potential.
(This article first appeared in
SaudiDebate.com.
Published with permission.)
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